Hope and Inspiration: A Survivor’s Story with Dr. Debra Warner
Dr. Russell Strickland 21:11
It’s got to be a tough thing to deal with. How did the pattern writing the book help you and your relationship? You know,
Dr. Debra Warner 21:18
it, it strengthened it in a lot of ways. Because I, I had, we had to talk about things that we normally wouldn’t talk about. So the one thing I learned in working with couples and working with dealing with my own stuff, is that you have to have uncomfortable conversations. Having uncomfortable conversations makes you realize, Oh, my God, I mean, we had one at first and
Dr. Russell Strickland 21:39
I don’t know how you manage this. Buy in right? He had to go on this journey. Right? Otherwise, you wouldn’t want to make your relationship stronger. But it may very well entity that you’re trying to figure out how to deal with this. Yeah, he’s retreating and retreating and retreating. So he stepped up right away. To be part of this.
Dr. Debra Warner 21:57
You He did? Well, he, you know, it really was a lot of his own idea, too, because he realized how I could tell a story. But he says, you can tell a story I can’t tell. People will listen to you, just because of who you are. When hearing a guy say this, oh, what are they going to say? Great. And I said, Oh my god, he goes, you have to tell the story. You have to go on this journey. And so I realized when I started this journey, then I started getting all these people support, again, from male survivor groups, from you know, when I did my Ted, like, they helped me write it, they practice with me. You know, it’s like, and they’re like, but you’re telling a story we can’t tell. Right? And so when I he actually went and edited and went through my book, right, so he had a huge part in it. So when I did my Ted, I remember saying to him, because he didn’t think I got it. He’s like, he’s like, you know, you’re getting you’re getting accolades. from something that happened to me, I said, you need to read my intro and my book. And I said, It’s sad, because I’m getting something out of this. And he’s getting nothing. And I have to sit and think this is his pain, and I’m profiting from it in a way where he should be the one. So when I when I did my Ted, he was right there. That’s why I said, You know, I am his wife, like, this is his story, like I made that clear. But it’s like it to me the gender stereotypes that are in this world where that’s where it had to go, right. And then I continue this journey with my life’s work. It’s, it amazes me how people, especially in this day and age, everything has happened or COVID still have to be reminded of this inequity. That’s there. Yeah. You know,
Dr. Russell Strickland 23:33
yeah, as you were talking, and just, it just reminds me of, you know, all of the community that came around as you were going through this journey. This is what why I hear from folks over and over and over again, when you’re out there to serve. The opportunities just come and keep them, you know, you’re helping these other people. So they’re coming to you. And they’re supporting you, as you’re helping them. So yes, it’s one of these amazing things that has, I’ve heard from so many folks, they’re going through this doctoral journey have completed their dissertations and are moving on to the next phase. I just can’t encourage folks enough, you know if you’re working on your dissertation, finish it. So, finishing this, you can have this.
Dr. Debra Warner 24:15
Yeah, don’t be ABD. Oh, just get that no matter what I tell people lock yourself away, get a hotel room, just write like, all these things. Just get it on paper.
Dr. Russell Strickland 24:27
The thing is, is find someone and obviously this can sound self-serving. I’m a dissertation coach, I might help people do this professionally. But it doesn’t have to be me. It doesn’t have to be professional. Find someone who’s going through what you’re going through, or who’s been through it before. Who can help you make sense of it? normalize this experience because I’ve talked to 1000s of doctoral students. You guys aren’t all unique. You guys think you are? Everybody would do the same thing. Yeah. And that you know, the shame and the failure that you think you’re experiencing. That’s part The journey, and the loneliness and the confusion, again, something a lot of people experience and having someone to guide you through that makes a lot of that a lot a lot easier.
Dr. Debra Warner 25:12
Yeah. And it comes from places you wouldn’t even expect. Everybody expects their dissertation chair to be that person. But they have tons of them. You know, they have tons of students, and it’s
Dr. Russell Strickland 25:21
paid to be your support system. Yeah, they’re paid to make sure that you’ve met the credentials. They’re really a grater, in a sense. Yeah, some schools call them a mentor, but they often don’t even act, ask them to be a mentor, they just know they that’s the title they use. In your dissertation chair, your committee members, their job is to make sure that the things they don’t like about your dissertation that you fix, until they can’t find anything they don’t like about it anymore than they have to let you go. It wants you to graduate. Some of them don’t. But which whichever they’re leading, you have to get to the point where they can say that this is a worthwhile dissertation. Yeah, there’s a doctoral degree.
Dr. Debra Warner 26:02
Yeah. And you know, when I sit on students committee is one of the things, I tell them is that I said, I want you to do something you like because you’re going to be married to it. And I actually tell them, raise your hand, you’re married, you’re married to this topic and I have them pick something that they’re going to be interested in. That is unique, you know, that I said, don’t just pick something because you think that’s what the world wants to hear. And also, your dissertation. It’s great, it could help you, but it’s not going to make your career getting the degree is going to help your career. And so, you definitely need to be interested in this for the next two to three years. You know,
Dr. Russell Strickland 26:34
I tell them the exact opposite for the same reason you just did the most part, your dissertation it, like I said, it’s not going to make your career, it’s not going to be the thing it doesn’t generally, in rare instances, it has a life beyond your graduate school. It does happen. Particularly if you want to be a research professor, then your dissertation is actually important.
Dr. Debra Warner 26:55
Yeah, it’s very important.
Dr. Russell Strickland 26:57
But if you want to go and do things, you know, outside of academia, you want to write and be a coach or other things where you’re working in this industry somewhere, then most likely your dissertation isn’t going to follow you around. And for that reason, you’re not married to it, you can change anything about it. You want to at any time, as long as you closer to graduation. Yes. Versus again, if you are trying to become a research professor, that’s a different set of rules. Yeah, dissertation is your entree to your, your career, and you better do. It’s the foundation. I know. Lots of research professors in their 60s and beyond, who can trace what they’re doing today. Back to their dissertation. Again, unbroken wine. Each step they take make sense. They never said, okay, I’m done with that stuff. Now, I’m gonna do this. Some do. But for the most of them, the whole career is set by that dissertation. Yeah.
Dr. Debra Warner 27:52
But again, depends on your focus.
Dr. Russell Strickland 27:54
It does that. And that’s, that’s the first thing we do. Everybody. You know, you mentioned earlier, you got one life, right? Make it not the best life but your best life? What? Where are you going? If someone tells me, hey, you know, I want to study this topic for my dissertation, because I’m fascinated by it. And that’s what I want to do. And we get to the point where we decide to listen for a hobby, you could either go out and play golf, or you could study this stuff, you know, for a dissertation, it’s going to cost you a lot of money to play golf, or it’s gonna cost you a lot of money to be in school. If you’re okay with, you know, equating those things, this is something I’m doing because I enjoy doing it, do whatever you want to because you enjoy doing it. But if you’re telling me I want to get out and graduate, so I can do other things with this degree, then that’s, that’s a different focus. There’s no judgment on any of these focuses, you just have to know what yours is, so that you can do the right things to meet those goals.
Dr. Debra Warner 28:47
Yeah, I think we’re saying the same thing. Just go on about it in a different way. Because you do have to tick the boxes. You know, I just want to make sure they enjoy it. And it’s not like grueling for them. Because you’re seeing those students, right? Where they have a topic, they and they pick it because it’s personal. But it becomes one of those topics that it’s it becomes painful, because they’re not enjoying it. Like it’s
Dr. Russell Strickland 29:09
like the other reason why I like to steer people away from it. I know so many universities that the traditional language, yeah. Immerse yourself in the literature and pick a topic you’re passionate about. Yeah. And I don’t know where else you immerse yourself. It sounds like a spa bath or something. That didn’t sound like you’re getting ready to go anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. So, I don’t like that language. And the pick a topic you’re passionate about part. I tell people all the time. Again, if you’re in this unconventional mode of I want to get my degree so I can go out and help people. Right? If you’re in that mode, then picking a topic you’re passionate about is a problem for you. Because your dissertation is actually not your dissertation. It’s actually your committee’s dissertation. Yeah, your names on the label. All right, like if you’re building us a suit of clothes or something like that is your name on the label, but they’re the ones that’s got We’re gonna sign in until it fits them. You’re not getting that signature.
Dr. Debra Warner 30:04
Exactly. And it’s painful to watch those students sometimes because you’ve said this, and you see where it’s going, it’s like a snowball that’s building at them. And you’re like, oh, my God, you know, and
Dr. Russell Strickland 30:17
you can’t do it somebody else’s way. It’s got to be done your way. Yeah, I’ll particularly tell folks, when there is something you’re really passionate about, why don’t we just pick something we can get done for this dissertation? And then let’s write your book. Not for your dissertation committee, but for the people who you really want to help. Yeah, put it out there in the popular press. Not in the Academic Press. Yeah. That’s where you can go and gain some real traction doing things. Yeah.
Dr. Debra Warner 30:41
Yeah. Yeah. I remember my first dissertation; I did something nobody even had studied before. Just because just because I knew that there, there wasn’t an argument. I could give them what they wanted. And I could move on, even though I found it very fascinating. I studied attorneys and facial expression. But yeah, but it my whole dissertation was, like 30 pages. Like, there wasn’t much out there. You know. And so, but I graduated, and look at what I’m doing now.
Dr. Russell Strickland 31:10
Yeah. Yep. Occasionally, you do get to see those things that are very unique slice where you get to bring up something new and show. There was a story I remember when I was in undergrad, I was an undergrad. I majored in physics and math. And if I remember correctly, there was a so everybody’s learned in physics, the that that light can act like a particle or like Connect like a wave. And everybody gets real confused about that. Because it’s still nobody understands that that doesn’t make any sense. That doesn’t jive with our understanding of the world. Except that when we do experiments, that’s, that’s what’s going on. Yeah. Well, the guy who kind of first said, well, that’s not only light, but it’s like everything. He had a really, really small dissertation. But it was profound, because it changed the way we look at the world was one of those paradigm shifts kind of things. So yeah, you get something like that?
Dr. Debra Warner 32:04
Well, and yeah, and you know, what, that helped me begin to network with attorneys, right, because look at what I do now. So even though it was this thing that wasn’t very big, or whatever, and I graduated, I learned how to interact in those systems. Right. And then I gained support, and you know, so you never know what’s going to, to connect,
Dr. Russell Strickland 32:23
you know, to have that doctoral degree. Again, people gravitate. People want that there’s a halo effect.
Dr. Debra Warner 32:31
There is it’s very unique, but I just love but I love that my community of color, you know, the fact that I have that it’s, it’s so they rally behind me in a way, like, you know, it’s like, I can be that role model. Like, when I graduate, I didn’t realize how important that was, you know, to them, you know, and how they’re like, oh, my God, and I could go on these inner circles. They’re like, you’re a doctor. And I remember this little girl one time was following me in New York, like, just following me. And it was I was like, that is so cute. Like, what is that about? And she really had never seen anyone like me. Yeah. And, and to her, that was just amazing. And I and I said, wow, and I remember my friend was with me, my friend, Chris, he goes, you probably just changed your life. In some way, you probably shaped her life in some way. And I said, oh, my God, and I, and I’m just thinking about that. But now that girl sees something possible. She sees something different, you know, and, and what, what a great thing to be able to do, you know, for a community, you know, or for just for kids in general.
Dr. Russell Strickland 33:37
We’re in and an awesome responsibility to remember that as you’re going through life, that there are some people and they see that and they’re like, I can do that.
Dr. Debra Warner 33:46
Yeah. You know, I, it’s great to see you know, and keep going, you know, and not stop, because you get discouraged, right?
Dr. Russell Strickland 33:56
No doubt, no doubt. Let’s switching gears a little bit. I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the collaborations you’ve had in being an author. And a little bit about the fact that you you’ve written more than one book, and some of those books have been collaboration so research professors who are these so if you’re working with,
Dr. Debra Warner 34:15
well, the first book, I keep them on my desk just so I can hold them up sometimes, but this is this is the first one is his history, his story heard me talk about it, and I I took pieces in my life and my story, and then I got other academics or people who are professionals in the field to explain why these things were occurring in male survivor relationships. And it’s, it’s really a guide to people in relationships with sexual abuse survivors, you know, and you can get it on Barnes and Noble, Amazon, Walmart, all of the distributors and then I have Barbara my boys which you saw earlier, same thing, just and also students helped me write these. And that is about gang intervention and what they do to reduce you know, issues in the neighborhood and everything. So, you can go and check that out. But my other one that I am particularly excited about, I wrote this with my son, he was nine at the time. It’s called Beavers, Foxes and Grizzly Bears, and oh, Cheetahs, Fish and Sloths, too. And it’s about organizational leadership. And it’s really, really cute. And he made his own little theory called binary responsibility. And I remember sitting with him, and I said, I always wanted to write an ArcSight book, because that’s my second doctorate in organizational leadership. And he and I see he says, what do you mean, mom? I said, well, you know, people are like animals, they’re like, different things. And they have different types. And, and sometimes, you know, when you’re a different type, you feel this responsibility, you know, and yet you want to be with your team. Because Mama, it’s binary responsibility. What do you mean, he goes, you feel obligated to the organization, but you still want to be with the people that have helped you get there, and you’re conflicted. Oh, my God. I said, well, who was it? Yeah, he goes, Well, there’s Leoville lion. And there’s the Beaver. But it’s Billy Beaver’s job and he’s getting this promotion. And I was like, okay, so every day, during his summer vacation, we wrote a little bit about this book, we wrote a little bit this story, and, and it came, it just came together. And in my students did all the Animal Facts, and my husband helped the story out, my brother did the art, or that’s Clive cheetah. And then, you know, and then it’s Lawrence lion. Now, we changed the name. And then and then backwards builders. And he even made a little organizational chart of everybody. It was it was insane. Like the things that he did, but people can check it out. I was trying to find, here’s a little org chart.
Dr. Russell Strickland 36:43
So amazing. But see, this is the sort of thing that you get to do. Yeah, have your doctoral degree you come across. And not only can you do these things, which are a blast, and fun and inspirational for your kids, but also, they get taken seriously in the marketplace. Because yes, it’s something that has some credibility behind it.
Dr. Debra Warner 37:05
Yeah. And this summer, I have two more books coming out. I translated the first book in the Spanish, and I got people to help me with that. So, I got my students to translate. And then I got my book club, to look over it because I go to an all Spanish book club. And I had them go over it and make sure it was translatable. And then me and my daughter wrote a cookbook, because she went to culinary school, we wrote a cookbook for foster kids, because she’s adopted. So, to help foster kids learn nutrition and learn how to cook in an expensive way. And that’s called, what does it make it or bake it, you know, and so it’s really, really cool. And that one will be out too. And you can get those on Barnes and Noble on Amazon. And, and I definitely won’t send you the information so people can look it up. But I mean, I’m really excited because here’s a person they said, couldn’t go to college prep classes, who’s written five books, who has a YouTube channel, has our merchandise on Amazon, Dr. Deborah’s things and more, and is still helping people and getting other people in, you know, so it’s like, whoever, you know, dude, you really missed a diamond. Because you saw the rough, but you didn’t see inside, you know?
Dr. Russell Strickland 38:12
And, and for everybody out there listening this, this is all about what’s possible. Yeah, just know that you, you can do all of these things. Don’t get bogged down in what you see in your life right now. But think about where you could go. There was a great quote, that is probably not quite a quote. But the idea Tony Robbins puts out there is that people vastly underestimate or vastly overestimate what they can get done in one year, and vastly underestimate what they can do in 10 years. Yes, you can change amazingly change the world in 10 years, you really can. But you know, in one year, it takes a while to get going. So, get your doctoral degree done, you can do that in a year.
Dr. Debra Warner 38:53
You can you finished, you can get that dissertation done, you know, and it’s interesting is because one of the other things I did, I said, I need a vehicle to help students do that. And, you know, I so I made a networking opportunity also with them with the script conference. And, you know,
Dr. Russell Strickland 39:12
talk a little bit about that. tell folks what the script conference is.
Dr. Debra Warner 39:14
So the script conference is a male survivor conference, it has this long name. It’s like a summit of community collaborate. Find out I always mess it up. And it’s my conference, and it’s just craziness. But anyways, I made it because my husband’s like, I wonder he just, you know, he gets mad. He goes, you don’t see me you don’t hear me. You don’t like because all male survivors feel like there’s they’ve not seen or heard a lot of times, and I mean, I don’t what are you talking about? I’ve dedicated my career to this. And he’s like, you don’t I said, okay, fine. So, I made a whole conference where you have people talk about and celebrating the resiliency of male survivors, trauma, and violence, and it’s grown into more than that. So, this year, we’re talking about Black Lives Matter and all lives matter and the Black Panthers and law enforcement sitting on the same panel. Talk out that and script is a place where we’re not on titles we’re all first name, we it’s really a conference in reverse. It’s it is the community coming together telling the professionals what they need versus to professionals telling the community. So they sit on the same panels, you might have ex-gang members, and the mayor’s office, and then the wardens of a prison, on the same panels talking about the same issues. And it’s done like that, so that everybody feels equal and heard. And then, you know, we have this year, we’re talking about Asian discrimination. We’re talking about rape kits and how they’re not process like, there’s not a topic as long as it connects to how we can help a survivor feel heard a male survivor, there isn’t a topic parenting touches men, right? Like, there’s just all of that. And so I do that, but yet my students are the ones man powering it. And I get to network with all these people, they get to learn how to get a mentor, they get to understand how to get to where they want to be, right. And it’s free. That’s the thing is I only work on donations. I do all of this by donations every year. And I have like 400 people who would you know, who reserved space and get a ticket, and it’s on Zoom these last two years, but it will be at USC, the year after next. Because they’ve agreed to give me free space. And so, you know, I build these partnerships. I’m like, Oh, my God, I can do that. I didn’t even think that it was possible. And I’m like, Okay, great. I’ll come there, like, you know, but it’s for networking, and you’re doing good. People want to help you, you know.
