What We Were, What We Are, and What We Might Be with Dr. Erin Kelley
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:21:50] And I think for a lot of people say it in different ways, but. At some point, usually before you even enroll or apply for a program, that notion of having a doctoral degree is an identity issue for folks. They they consider themselves to be a doctor. Whether whether they have done the first hours of class work or not, that’s that’s how they can kind of consider themselves. And and it’s odd because after you graduate, then you you also will have that imposter syndrome where you don’t really want to call yourself doctor and you don’t feel comfortable introducing yourself that way and all of those sorts of things. But I do believe that that there is a driving force. And for folks who are thinking at some point maybe quitting or walking away, you’ve got to know that you’re just going to feel incomplete until you go and do it.
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:22:45] Definitely. Yeah, I agree.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:22:47] Doctoral student that earlier in my life and through a series of, you know, things that happened when I was at school, I decided to walk away. There was a time when it made sense for me to do that. And I decided to do that. And I went on and did other things and was perfectly happy with the way things were going. But there was part of me that also kind of felt like I left that undone. And I went to school in a different area and earned my Ph.D. in a different area because that’s how strong I felt like I felt like that drive was at the time. I don’t think it was. Yeah. Not having finished that doctoral degree, if I’d left it undone for too many more years.
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:23:27] Yeah. And I mean, and I feel so bad. I’m sure, you know, plenty of people that got stuck on the Ph.D. I’ve got one or on the dissertation portion of the day. I’ve got one friend that’s been working on her dissertation for ten years. And you don’t want to do that. You don’t want to get yourself going down that rabbit hole. I have several that that that never finish their dissertations. And so, you know, it’s it’s absolutely I can’t even imagine how that would feel. I mean, I had felt that way at a certain point in time that I also didn’t know what I was going to write about. So it was just it’s kind of a given that I needed to take a pause or what have you, but. Oh, yeah, I mean, in the fact that you’ve got that Dissertation Done, does has this help for these folks because it is or it was for me anyway, a very, very esoteric process. And then you I did not get any guidance. I didn’t even know I had to write a literature review and my introduction, I had no idea, no idea whatsoever. And I mean, I had submitted I had submitted the dissertation.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:24:37] People will say that nobody learns comes comes out of the womb learning, knowing how to walk, but. For humans, walking is a natural condition and and you figure it out, I think you could probably do unethical to do the research, but you could probably get a baby and put it put it out all by itself where it never sees another human being. And within two or three years, it’ll figure out how to walk. So that’s a natural thing. But what people don’t think about is, listen, the same thing is true of a dissertation. Nobody comes out of the womb knowing how to write a dissertation. And it’s not a natural thing. It is definitely a manmade thing. Very fine details about how it needs to be done and what what what needs to be where. And it’s there’s no expectation whatsoever that somebody should just be to intuit any of this. You have to owe their support to from someone who’s been there before to figure this all out. Now, whether that person is a friend or someone that you barely know or someone that you hire to the matter is that you’re not going to get through this without some sort of guidance and mentorship because it just it’s so unnatural. The process is it could happen.
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:25:47] And I couldn’t I couldn’t agree more. And I mean, if you look at me, I mean, I was an English major. I am with am a very strong writer. I mean, what I’d love to write, love to research. I went to law school to do legal writing, to do legal research, came back to graduate school, could write these 20 page papers, the 30 page papers. And, you know, writing is my thing. I mean, I was teaching, I am teaching, writing at the collegiate level. And I get to that dissertation and I was just getting pounded. I really was. I mean, being the writer, a good writer, I was I really, really struggled. So you guys helping out in that way is just phenomenal.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:26:31] Yeah. Well, tell us some Dr Kelley, about what what was it like when you finished your dissertation, when when, you know, your committee approved everything? It’s all done. You ready to graduate? Tell us about that experience. Did you have a defense or what was it like to to actually complete the dissertation and get it approved?
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:26:55] Yeah, I mean, so so what what’s the process that I went through and they wanted you to complete your dissertation in two years? I completed it in two and a half because of my work schedule. And I had my dog passed away and I didn’t write for two months because I was just a mess. And Breville things things. But I to in two and a half years. But how mine worked is that I would send in chapters and every chapter and then I would revise and revise and revise and they would my committee would sign off on each chapter and then when they were ready, all my chapters had been signed off. Then I combined everything for one more look from everybody, and then they signed off on the whole. Then I had to defend, then I had to defend it, and which it was not fun. The defense was. And I think it’s designed to be fun. I think almost it’s sometimes like I’m like, are they academically hazing me? Maybe in a little way?
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:27:56] Usually that comes earlier in the process, because most people do report these days that the defense was a lot of fun.
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:28:06] I’m glad for them!
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:28:07] And so what was your defense like then?
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:28:14] They were still despite they had signed off on on on my arguments, on what I had, what I’d written presented, they were still questioning things, they were still questioning pieces and really wanted me to justify a very nuanced ways for the big picture and also in for smaller portions. I mean, I probably my our first. It was a three hour process, so the first hour and a half was really intense in that way, and then it’s kind of started listening and listening and listening and probably I would say maybe my last 10 minutes was fun. But but yeah, I mean, it was I felt like I was a defendant on the stand getting. Yeah, I was I was getting shot left and right. And it was challenging. It was. But, you know, they were pleased with what I had to say ultimately. And it worked out. But yeah, I wasn’t expecting that level of intensity. I will tell you that. I didn’t expect it, but that’s just kind of how mine went. Obviously, it doesn’t feel that way for everybody else, but that’s kind of how mine went.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:29:26] Well, it depends. I mean, that definitely sounds like an old school defense. There are people are you know, there are some professors who think that they are the guardians to the gates, to the academia. And if you can’t push push through them, then you’re not worthy. And so you hear about that and usually more of an old school mentality today, much more like if the student doesn’t pass the defense, it looks that it reflects poorly on the faculty. Why did the faculty bring the student up there? Weren’t you aware that she wasn’t ready to defend yet? And if you were if you were aware, why would you put her up there? If you weren’t aware, then who’s doing your job? Because you should know that she wasn’t ready. And so the people is more of a coronation. It’s a celebration. It’s yeah. It’s a confirmation of the fact that we just we’ve approved your dissertation. You know, it’s done. It’s in writing. It honestly does seem in this day and age, silly to to have you come up there and defend something for real when they’ve already approved it in writing.
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:30:34] Well and, you know, kind of looking at it in that perspective, they knew that I was going to pass.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:30:45] And that’s the other thing, you know, even a difficult three hour afternoon at the end of which they say, congratulations, doctor. This is still a pretty good day.
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:30:56] Oh, yeah, it was. It’s all worth it. It’s one hundred. I mean, I tell people I mean, if if this is your path and your plan, it is one hundred percent worth all the heartache and grief and sacrifice. It really is.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:31:09] So, Dr. Kelley, after you completed your defense, which was a little bit more difficult than hopefully it’s going to be for most folks, but that after you got through that, what was next for you? What what came after graduation?
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:31:23] It was a totally different world. I got offered a job in a matter of, I think, two and a half months and it was from Dallas College, I had been an adjunct there for for the last four or five years.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:31:37] So they knew you will, but and as soon as the decision changed your first name to doctor, they’re like, come on in.
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:31:44] Basically, yeah, they had I had a flight, you know, they had put up some job listings. I applied. And, yeah, I just kind of basically breezed through.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:31:53] Yeah. And what was that like, what were you doing, is that literature professor?
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:32:01] Yeah, I’m a composition and literature professor, yes.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:32:05] And what does that mean in terms of your teaching undergrads or what level you are teaching now?
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:32:11] Yeah, I teach freshman and sophomore composition and then I teach literature courses, oral literature, American literature, I teach a gender injustice in American literature class that’s really popular with students. And then I teach British literature as well. So I like all of the literature, but the literature can come. All kinds of different students come in. It’s technically a sophomore level class, but in the summer I will have a lot of nursing students that will take world literature for whatever reason. There’s a couple of programs here in Texas where nursing students have to take world literature. I’ve got seniors, juniors and seniors from institutions come in. So yeah, the literature courses is kind of a sprinkle of of just about anybody.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:33:01] Yeah. And what is it about that that you enjoy so much?
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:33:07] What I love about literature is that, you know, literature is a cultural tool, just like a court case. They tell stories, they tell when they’re historical or they’re modern day. They actually tell a story about what was happening at that time in society, what was going on, what it was like. What were the problems? What was easy about the society? What was what was difficult. I mean, literature is a cultural tool and it evolves with a time and it evolves with a geographical location. So what I like to do is I like to pick out those pieces in historical literature and I like to bring in our culture in the United States and issues that we’re seeing in the present day. So the theory, the literary theory is called pleasantest historicism, bringing in history and the present and looking at the connections. That’s what I love about literature from any part of the world. From any perspective. Literature can just continue to teach us what we were, what we are and what we might be as a society as well.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:34:26] And as someone who feels a little bit grizzled and cynical about the younger generation, hopefully they’re learning from your class that that culture’s change over time and that that everybody looks looks at things a little bit differently as we go through time. And this current cancel culture that we’ve got that’s so prevalent these days, they would be well advised to to read a little bit of history and a little bit of literature from from days gone by. I mean, you can easily sit down and watch a film for 20 or 30 or 40 years ago right now and kind of bristle a little bit and say, oh, my gosh, I can’t believe they did that or that was OK or that was acceptable back then. But the fact that it was and and we need to understand that that that those ideas and ideals do change over time.
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:35:20] And yeah, and I mean, yeah, and also back on the you know, the cancer culture and things of that nature, I taught an entire composition class around the theme of understanding, credibility and sources in research, because that is really, really difficult for students these days, because there’s so much on the Internet. Information is everywhere and the credibility of sources is really, really important. And that’s a big struggle. That’s a big struggle for all of us. For all of it.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:35:56] Right? Yeah, you have to you have to understand where the what the source was, what where to come from. Do I need to believe it necessarily or not? And and when you do earn a doctoral degree, you need to understand that people are going to attribute facts and reality to everything that you say, so you have to be very, very careful about being very precise about when you know what you’re talking about and where people with doctoral degrees, where people there are times when we don’t know what we’re talking about. And that’s OK as long as we are clear about that. Hey, I’m speculating here. Let’s talk through how it might work. Maybe we could think about it this way. Those are all fine things to do. But you just have to be very careful to make that clear because so many people will just believe whatever it is that you you have to say, because of the the expertise that your world position provides, that the president never learned or never cared to learn that there are a lot of people because he’s the president of the United States. And that’s not an unreasonable position. You just need that the president of the United States to be respectful of the authority he wields. And and people with doctoral degrees have that that similar level of credibility and authority that they have to be respectful of.
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:37:20] Yeah, respectful and also really, like you mentioning, understanding your audience, you know, a very broad audience of all different levels of education, of beliefs, of, you know, perspectives that folks have because of where they live and where they’re from, you have to be very cognizant of all of those things. And, yeah, as an expert, you know, like the president, to me, a leader should be inclusive instead of divisive. And but it’s hard. I mean, it’s just difficult. It’s there’s so much that we as PhDs that we have to consider now. And on the flip side of that, some people are untrustworthy of the highly educated. They consider us elitist. I’m like as far from elitism as you can imagine. I’m from Muleshoe, Texas, for goodness sakes. But but a certain demographic just does not trust higher education. They think we have an agenda or or or want to brainwash people. But it’s just difficult. And it’s part of, I think how. Easily, it is to exclude and to divide when we all want to try to come together instead.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:38:41] Yeah, the and it is important for you to to to be cognizant of the language that you use and how can you include people? How can you do things to break down barriers by trying to teach from up here, by telling stories and by, you know, interact with people in a in a genuine way you can trust as opposed to. You know, people being distrustful of you, if you’re putting yourself up here, then they feel like they’re being put down there.
Dr. Erin Kelley [00:39:17] Yes, exactly. And going back to what we you know, what we aspire to these days is get out of our dissertation. I’m a very firm believer in making sure that in some way there’s so many wonderful Ph.D.s out there, so many wonderful dissertations to try to translate that academic language or one of one or more of those ideas in that dissertation and somehow get it out into the general audience, get it out to the general public. We are no better than anybody else. But I think one of those ways in which we can bridge that gap is to really try to take some of what we have, what we have learned, and apply it to the outside world, get it out there for everyone, not just for our small little group of academics.
