Balance, Stick-to-It-iveness, and Planning with Dr. Preston Cherry
Intro [00:00:03]
Welcome to An Unconventional Life, a podcast where we share stories about the crazy one percent out there who earned their doctoral degrees and then went on to use them in crazy, cool, unique and unconventional ways. Here’s your host, astrophysicist and teacher, author, dissertation coach, and more, Dr Russell Strickland.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:00:29]
Hi, this is Dr. Russell Strickland, your host of an Unconventional Life podcast today I have with me Dr. Preston Cherry, and Dr. Cherry is a man after my own heart. He has got one foot in academia and one foot in the sort of professional world. Dr. Cherry is an unconventional doctoral student, or at least he was. And he’s going to tell us share his story there. But currently, he serves as assistant professor of personal financial planning at the University of Wisconsin – Green Bay is the director of that program. He is also the founder and president of Concurrent Financial Planning at where he works with business owners and and households to help them achieve life-money balance. We like we like to talk about life balance in various ways. I can’t wait to talk with Dr. Cherry about that. Before we jump right in, I want to remind everyone that this episode is brought to you by Dissertation Done. At Dissertation Done, we help students in the help folks in two ways. One is if you’re an adult doctoral student and you’re about to start on your dissertation, you’ve already started on your dissertation. Maybe you’re struggling a little bit. Maybe you’re fed up with it and about ready to walk away, reach out to us first. A DissertationDone.com/done. And we’ll see if we might be able to see if you’re a good fit for our Fast-Track Your Dissertation coaching program, which gets students through the dissertation process a year or two sooner than their peers. It’s an awesome program. If you’re a good fit, reach out to us at DissertationDone.com/done. And if by chance you’re not working on your dissertation right now, but you’re out there living your unconventional life, you’re an expert. You’ve got a message to share with the world. We can help you do that by writing your own book. We’ll take you from a blank page to a published work that that is strategically designed to help bring in customers, clients and patients. Check us out a DissertationDone.com/book to find out more about that. Enough of the commercial break, let’s talk to Dr. Cherry. Welcome, Dr. Cherry.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:02:28]
Thank you for joining me here today, Dr. Strickland. And I guess we’;; just go on a first name basis, the rest of the way I like do it.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:02:35]
Yes. Yes. I like to let folks know we’re talking to Dr. Cherry here on a professional basis. If you’re like me, I grew up Russell, and that’s what everybody calls me. But professionally, I try to stick to that doctor because once you earn it, you got to take you’ve got to leverage it.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:02:53]
You got to take it almost. No, most definitely. Yeah. I have a license plate that says this is a P-D-C-P-H-D. So I tell people all the time the only reason I pursued a Ph.D. was to have a cool license plate.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:03:09]
You got you got me beat on that one. I do not have that yet. I have to look into it. So we were speaking just a little bit before we got going. And and you were telling me about you kind of took a unique path currently in life, which I enjoy, I have those who’ve been listening to the podcast for a while new. I have a very eclectic path myself. But currently you’ve got a foot in both camps. But tell us how that all started. What motivated you to go out and try for your Ph.D. enroll in at the PhD program?
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:03:44]
Yes. Thank you for that question. First of all, Dissertation Done that. That’s a great concept in a business. I mean, coaching goes a long way in a lot of things like exercise and financial planning, like I do. And so having a culture there, that’s a great idea. So I’m sure people really appreciate the services that you offer.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:04:04]
Yeah, I think that it’s something that folks need to to be comfortable with. What a lot of folks that are doctoral students, entrepreneurs, face this to something we call imposter syndrome, where you think that’s not really who I am. And a lot of folks think maybe I’m not at that level, that doctoral level. And and instead of saying, no, that’s me and I’m going to make it happen and getting a coach maybe to help them through like executives would or top athletes, would they try to do it themselves? And really, really successful people always get somebody to help them, not because they need the help necessarily, but because they know that help gives you shortcuts, it guarantees success. And why make it harder on yourself? Life’s already hard enough.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:04:49]
For sure. For sure. Yes. I mean, so that’s a really good segue-way into my why. I mean, pursuing a Ph.D. is is it’s challenging. It’s challenging. But however, I wanted to my transition from the private sector to academia, and now I do both as an entrepreneur and also an academic. But mine was about a dream, simply put. And I know some of these things sound cliche. You say the P word, which is passion. But what’s your why? It matters though. And one of the things that I wanted to do back in twenty sixteen after I left my last employer was to dream up. I knew that I could move horizontally in my career. I knew that and it paid a nice chunk of change and I knew I could have and I was not going slightly up the ladder as well, not just no money, but just on having — I was a mutual fund wholesaler at the time. And I was traveling the country having relationships with with advisers and their firms across the country. It was great. And I was probably going to move up and get a bigger opportunity to manage a region. And my next move with with a large a couple of large firms had the opportunity. But now, just like I wanted I wanted to see what I could do, I could really do that. And all else equal is what I would talk about dissertations. All else equal. I wanted to see what I could do vertically, what was my dream. And I was like, OK, this is the opportunity to do it. And one of those was to pursue a doctorate degree and and help fuel the things that I wanted to do, become a speaker, become a researcher, business owner practitioner and all that. So to do all that, this was one of the ways to do it.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:06:52]
And when you talk about moving up vertically, if you want to take those big jumps, if you want to really move, you might be able to do it over a long arc of a career. But generally speaking, you’ve got to go out on your own. You’ve got to take that risk to develop a little entrepreneurial spirit. And when I say entrepreneur, that doesn’t mean you have to create the next new thing like Uber or something like that. That kind of didn’t exist before they came along. It just means that you’re going out there and you’re taking personal responsibility for your own success. You’re not part of the big team like you would be in a corporate environment where you’re contributing to the team’s success. You’re out there pretty much on your own or you’re the leader of a smaller team that is responsible for your success. So that’s that’s a tough decision for a lot of folks. But certainly having that credential helps you solidify that expertise when you meet new folks.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:07:44]
It does. And one of the things I wanted to say to it is to I wanted to impact people not only on the client level, but students, too. And that’s why I’m teaching as well as I left that I love I love mentoring and what you’re doing with Dissertation Done and and what happened in my life. We’ll get to that kind of story, which always running theme is mentorship without any guidance. Obviously, I have my parents, they’ve been married 42 years now and outside of them, and they’re pretty young to my dad, just retired. So they have a very fruitful life ahead of me. So I was fortunate to have them and my sister around. And so we have a close knit family and that was the foundation. However, once I got to undergrad and finished, I had I started really getting mentors then and my father at the time, he said, but at that point in my life, he said, you know, he said, you know, we’ve done all we can do. You’re going to it’s these people’s turn now. You know, your mentors, to take you on to another level. And so I just wanted to say that about about impact and what I wanted to do, too.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:08:56]
We find that a lot of the doctoral students I talked with doctoral students all the time and so many of the doctoral students I talked to, it is about and you talk about cliche or something, maybe sounding a little hokey. It’s about making the world a better place. They’re out there wanting to serve people to make their lives better, which is kind of why I do what I do at Dissertation Done, because I feel like if I can get more students to that point where they’re now doctors and they can do this to help in their communities, then that that’s that’s me helping out, too.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:09:26]
And I would say that I would touch on what you were saying earlier to bring it back to what you were introducing for the same way is that it does if you want to be an academic, that that’s great. It’s all about what you want to do, aspire to you. If you like to work at a at a company, that’s great. Not everybody has to have this entrepreneurial spirit. I mean, that’s overdone a lot. It’s like, OK, if you don’t do this, you’re not really dreaming big. You’re not really doing that. Is discounting those those folks that have other avenues of life. It is about personal preference. It is about where you invest it. It is about your own personal journey. So I don’t like to discount folks that may not have it. I don’t know what you were trying to do, but I just I just want to emphasize, it’s OK. We’re in this journey to the crunch, the numbers and all that. And that’s what our passion is. That’s great.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:10:19]
And that’s one hundred percent. I agree with you 100 percent. I was saying if that that’s your goal is to really move vertically. That’s generally the way that you do it is by going out and having that entrepreneurial spirit, if you like, being part of that team and having that that that structure and being able to do, quite honestly for most people, more in a sense, as part of the you know, in a corporate environment, you can be responsible for a little piece of a huge thing, whereas when you’re on your own, you can be responsible for a bigger piece of what’s ultimately going to be a smaller thing. You can still help people lead the way. So it is about you and your choices. And the thing that the Ph.D. or doctoral degree in general does is it multiplies those choices. The opportunities just just sprout out of the ground, it seems like, for some folks after they graduate.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:11:07]
Sure, sure. And at the end of the day, just like the license plate, Dr. Cherry, just sounded cool. My niece, she thought it sounded cool, too. And that’s another thing. What was it? She’s kind of my inspiration a little bit, too. I had a lot of inspirations, but she was a big part. She’s twelve now and she’s so curious. And for her to see her uncle achieve something, she doesn’t necessarily have to go down that that path. It’s like some of some sports parents tend to force sports. And, you know, it just gives them the it says, OK, if you if you dream it or this is what you choose to do and you’re inspired then you can do it, you know, so she said she goes, I love universities, I’ve taken on taking her on a couple of tours and all that. And she’s like, you know, Texas Tech, that’s where I graduated from. And she was like, you know, they have a aquatics program. I didn’t even know what aquatics were at 12. You know. And she does.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:12:11]
Yeah, that’s true. That’s awesome. So I tell our a lot of our students have to have that as a part of the reason why, too, is they want to inspire their kids or something else. But one of the things that I talked to doctoral students a lot is this idea of normative pressure of most doctoral students don’t know another doctoral student. They don’t know anybody else that’s working on their dissertation. At the same time, they are they may have met somebody in an online class or something like that, but to really know them and to be connected with them on a daily basis, most doctoral students don’t have that. And it makes it very difficult to get up and do your dissertation when you’re supposed to be doing it. That is a way the hey, my uncle was able to get his dissertation done and graduate. He’s Dr. Cherry. That creates that little normative. And I don’t want to use the word pressure necessarily here, but it like you said, it shows that it can be done. She knows somebody who got his doctoral degree at this point. And she also knows who you are. Right? So, she’s like, heck if Uncle Preston can do it.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:13:20]
Yeah, that’s right. That’s right.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:13:22]
So that really helps because we’re all people like you were alluding to earlier and for for people, the younger generation, to see folks with their doctoral degrees that they know helps them think that that might be an opportunity for them. And whether that’s a choice they want to make or not is irrelevant. I mean, they get to make their own choices, but to know that that’s an opportunity for them, that they don’t have to feel like they’re stretching so much necessarily to do that because they know people that they can relate to that have done right.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:13:49]
And you and you made a great point just a minute ago, which was, while you’re in it, getting a degree of process. I was fortunate to have several friends that have already been to the process.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:14:04]
That’s good for your your success or your mental health even going through that process.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:14:13]
Absolutely. I asked for advice and one thing about coaching for real. I mean, one thing if I were to ask. It takes courage to ask and it really does. And it’s not a that’s another myth. It’s not for sure. Not a weakness. It is a strength. It is just saying, listen, I need some help. Can I talk to you? What are your thoughts? And then just sit back and take take some advice, take some direction. And I’ll tell you what, I wasn’t good at that earlier in my life.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:14:43]
But if you get through a doctoral degree program, you I think you can get good at it. And those nine times out of ten, you’re going to get good at it for a doctoral degree program because it does require you to to grow and growth is hard.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:14:58]
‘I’ll give you a quick story. I was in, I was in the class, and it was my first. What was it? It was the research when we had R1 and R2. So it was when we started getting into the paper writing process after we had a lot of courses and everything. Oh, man. And I tell you, coming from the professional world, I thought I could write a little bit.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:15:20]
And you could write a little bit, but it was for a different audience. Right? It’s a different way of writing this thing.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:15:25]
Yeah, absolutely. And I just didn’t know what I did know. Yeah. And I came in there and I started writing those those rough drafts. And when we started writing and we started with the introduction and we were getting into the lit review and oh my goodness, our art instructor is she was fearless. She still is fearless. And I appreciate it. I appreciate now what she put us through.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:15:48]
Right.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:15:49]
Which was this is this is crap. And you know with a big X on it. It was like, no, don’t do this, do that. I did my my pride. Right? It took it did take a hit. And I was like, OK, I know. I was clear here, what did you not see? And and that was that wasn’t the wrong reaction. It was just a first reaction.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:16:11]
Right.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:16:12]
But as I started going through the process, I was like, OK, let me sit back and and learn. Because obviously this is what this is all about. It’s about learning how to write an academic paper, what is the process and all that. So I need to take some constructive feedback and even, well, some chairs or even directors of programs. You know, it may not be constructive at the time. It may not seem constructive, but it ends up being constructive.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:16:40]
We have. We have students all the time who who get this feedback from their community, and it’s like telling them what’s wrong and what they need to fix and things like that. And I try to help them understand that even though your committee might be using that language, don’t don’t be hard on yourself. Don’t beat yourself up. Don’t have that negative self talk because a lot of what folks are facing when they get to the dissertation now, not with your first academic writing, but when you get to the dissertation, it’s it’s not they’re doing things wrong. It’s just that you’ve got to figure out what your committee wants and give that to them because everybody’s going to want something a little different. If you switch out a member of your committee when your dissertation was halfway done and everybody on the committee was happy with it and cheerleading and saying, “Go, Preston! Go, Preston!” and you switch out of committee member and it can be like, wait, there’s some problems here, not because there was anything wrong, but because that’s not exactly what he wanted to see somebody else help you build that. So that’s a mental health standpoint for folks to remember that when your committee says something’s wrong, most of the time it’s not wrong. It’s just not what they want. And you got to got to get it to where they want what they want to see.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:17:46]
Yeah, spot on, which is the number one goal, is trying to finish it. Yes. I mean, some people.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:17:56]
Well, that was your number one goal. That was my number one goal. Most of the folks in this audience, it’s probably their number one goal. But again, everybody gets to make choices. So if your number one goal is to, like, solve a particular problem and you just want to work on that and that’s your passion and that’s where you want to be, that’s fine. But do understand that if you’re doing that, you’re not trying to graduate as soon as possible. That’s graduating as soon as possible is a choice. And everything else has to be secondary, if that’s what you want to do. Most folks I talked to, that’s what they want to do. But it’s OK if you don’t if you want to take it slow, if you want to enjoy the journey, then that’s OK. It’s just that you’ll be a little alone in that.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:18:37]
And it’s about compromise. As you as you were alluding to, when some people want to do primary data research and that which is fine, particularly with the advent of what’s the what’s the Amazon thing going on right now? But you can you can procure data fairly quickly. Now, I wouldn’t say quickly, because then you have to you have to get it approved and all that. So it’s still a you have to you have to build the framework, the questioning.
Dr. Russell Strickland [00:19:11]
You have to find the right when you’re talking about Amazon being able to to distribute your survey so that people will come and fill out your instrument. Right. Right. OK, I know they do that, but I don’t remember what they call that. Oh, gosh, I don’t want folks to do that because you don’t know who your audience is, who you’re your sample is really. So I’m not familiar with it, but I know that they do it.
Dr. Preston Cherry [00:19:33]
And it’s actually becoming more and more of a go, too. I mean, it’s it’s really it’s a go to for collecting their primary data. But my point about that is that there is a process of collecting primary data, even just a little bit of it. And my point is, is I was told or suggested to me many times, times, OK, yes, you can go down and try to research your passion and whatnot. That’s that’s after and that’s that’s after. And you do have to have some do have to know how to work with your committee over my or my particular committee. I had, I would say issue, but I had a couple of opinions about theory and I thought that my theory was spot on and I put a lot of time into developing that theory. In a matter of fact, it was the right theory. It was just wasn’t the story wasn’t told correctly. So that that whole paragraph and a half or page that I had on theory feel like that, you know, and we had to go back and forth. So but I had to realize it’s like, OK, well, you know, once once I look back at it, I had to say, OK, yeah, they were correct, but I had to just take that. And I think if I had a different approach at first, I could have saved myself maybe a week or two. By, by really listening to what they were saying and what my mission was always trying to finish. At my own time, so to speak, but I wanted to finish, I didn’t want to let it draw out. So with that, I wasn’t researching a some sort of world changing, world changing idea. I simply wanted to know how to get to the process of writing a paper which which which that is the goal of a Ph.D. program is to show you can you get through a I mean, a paper writing process on your own? And can you show everybody that you know how to write one and don’t make the school look stupid? That’s that’s basically it.
